I deem this as a very possible solution to con loss and permi death. Let me set a few subjects first to then explain my idea.

Set maximum low con to 2 con.
Set 'cannot be resurected by a player' to 5 con.

Now, when someone dies, their resurrection time will soon be (or has been implemented, thank you Nezmar)dependant upon the amount they have tithed to their God or Goddess. Allow con loss to still have a chance of happening when a player dies. When they reach 5 con and lower, a player cannot be resurrected by another player and must wait upon their God.

Setting low con to 2 con prevents permi death and any bug from being at 1 con and death to maybe hit a permi death. So what penalties for being at 2 con and dieing? I would consider a good chunk of exp loss to be appropriate. Say I'm level 160 and die at 2 con. 6/7 million exp lost is a pretty good amount because of the level of the mobs I have to kill to get any good amount of exp. This won't allow those waiting for a quest with 2 con and neg 60 million exp to consider not dieing, but maybe it's kind of an okay thing for someone who has to wait to quest for 4 months.

Bring back 60 minute rp mpp points and allow extra rewarding of mpp from staff when they notice a good rp. Being under 5 con and not being able to be resurrected will still leave a search for con flasks and bringing back the 60 minute mpp may allow for more rp's because currently no one is getting any mpp for anything. (Let's be honest.)

There, a wonderful idea if I do say so and a very possible solution to permi death. Con loss will still happen and when con is low enough, you get penalties. Reach 2 con and you start losing good chunks of exp each death, but do not run the risk of permi killing a 2 year character... or even a level 199 character.

Two problems I see with your ideas:

1) Experience loss is highly abuseable, extremely difficult to track, and/or fairly pointless (you have to need a LOT of experience to get to the highest levels of DL).

2) Automatically awarding MPPs would likely create a (small) boom in requests to redeem them -- currently this has to be done manually by staff. At some point we'll have code that will allow you to do this automatically. When that happens it is likely we'll adjust the value of MPPs or set a suitable RP timer. Until then, I'd prefer that the small staff we have that can redeem MPPs focus on other more important aspects (such as building and running Quests).

That said, it also sounds like you want to get rid of permanent death. I've always kind of liked the idea, especially from an RP perspective, maybe every death should be permanent? That might be a better solution, it is more realistic. Then we also wouldn't have to worry so much about all this Quest building... Now that would be a challenge.

Death needs to have some purpose/fear/penalty associated with it and it needs to be significant. I think what we currently have is a pretty good compromise. I don't really like the idea of having to wait a (long) period of time after you die before you can interact with the game in any way, that is boring and encourages people to go do other things (outside of the game). That said, without it, the resurrection spell serves NO purpose. Having tithes affect this time makes sense and I've made this change in the latest code.

I am, of course, open to further discussion of this topic, perhaps you should try a poll to see what others think? What other ways could we penalize with death that might work better? Destroy all your equipment?

Best regards,

--Nezmar

I being at 1 con working over 2 years of playing weekends to get my character to 160 think that permideath is a horrible option. This is my 2nd character to permi die, if and when I do. I don't get mpp for my rp's or my ideas for whatever reason. I'm molding my character in rp with the help of staff and other players. Not many people accept the ideas of others into their character development.

People who have never permi'd and still have a good chunk of con don't realize how much it takes for a player to come back and restart. They can then say the love the permi death idea. Many players haven't come back because of the permi death. Some stopped playing when their con started getting low because they don't get help from players and no one seemed to care. Yog, he came back how many times? He was even killed off by players, hence the 2 con and you cannot resurrect. But even then, a group could get a player to 2 con if they desired during rp and make up some lame excuse at to why they did it. I like to think that the players who would be more capable of that don't play anymore though.

Two guild mates left during the whole Eracules - AOG thing because they lost con from someone killing them... no, 3 people. Two were unarmed in Rocksport, player drug them out from the fountain and killed them. Another made a post, simply stating his thoughts. Someone attacked him during rp, couldn't finish the job, fled away. This person later got summoned and low and behold, the attacker had full health and was ready to finish the job. That person left the game 1. They lost con when they died. 2. Didn't want to play a mudd with people who kill because they can and didn't know how to roleplay.

Anyways, that was a bit off subject. I'm just ranting. Permi death will never be solved it seems. I'll have fun casting cure critical on everyone for 95 levels of boredom. Much love to Clea, who is making her way back up after returing to the game.

Abolishing permanent death would be like taking one step forward, and then five steps back. It might seem like you're going somewhere, but all you're really doing is sabotaging yourself.

Honestly, the only way I can see to improving permanent death, would be to take it further. And the only way I can see of feasibly doing that, would to make levels more significant (ie levels being more potent, having less of them, and maybe making them easier to obtain). With the making of levels in this fashion, make constitution more of a significant factor of the game. As in, every timeyou die, you lose a con point.

So, every time you die, you lose a con. But, there's less levels and they're easier to obtain. Effectively making characters not as long lived (hopefully) and cutting down the task load of quests.

So now we should have a larger turn-over rate. People will die more often, more gear will go back to the game at a higher rate, and newer players will have a larger chance of getting those spiffy new items.

So, yeah. Good idea? Maybe. I have a feeling I'm one of the few people that would like it. *chuckle* Anyways, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Regards,
Jorlain

It's a great idea. I think if we step back and look at the problem: I feel, it all stems back to gaining mpp to buy back con, and finding con flasks. If someone dies all the friggin time, they'd better be loading a ton of con flasks. They can't do that, they permi. We can't load con flasks if we can't find them. We can't obtain mpp if we can get them from the times we do rp and have semi decent ideas or just do something so rediculous that staff says, "Yeah, that's worth something."

So people who don't die ever may be able to find con flasks if there are more and sell them to those in need. Con loss every now and then is great, I think the level system is good right now. It's harder for higher level characters to get exp and maybe some don't play because of that, who knows. I thought exp was set from each mob and not determined by level of the player.

There, more for now, awaiting thoughts.

permi death is a good idea, but possibly needs to be in effect in later levels, as new people joining for the first time don't permi at level 10, due to lack of knowledge of the game.
also, permi death helps put items back in the game and give you a reason to be careful..unfortunately, if people are too careful, they stop exploring or being active, thus giving the game a bordom problem to tackle...
keep perma death, make mpps easier to obtain for level purposes...but users can be spoiled and do not want to lose hours upon hours of work because of a simple death...

See, simple, to the point, exactly what's going on.
People don't wanna permi, so they don't go around the world killing stuff, thus become bored. When my 'crew' does go around killing big stuff we take risks and we'll do great a few kills then something crazy happens and someone dies. Now, for those 10 times we easily killed something, all is good, but then someone dies and loses a con. My 'crew' found a newer area to us so we started killing there. I've lost a con down there, but we're playing, we're exploring. Vladikus died to mephisteal, but I don't see anyone else taking him on unless our great and powerful tankers are playing, which they don't. It just feels that because we're playing, and challenging ourselves, we're getting laughed at by players and staff doesn't seem to care. Most players just tell me, "Well, what did you expect when you kill things that big?" I just say, "Well, did you have fun sitting at the fountain for 8 hours?"

Mpp isn't easy to get so no one roleplays, and when I do, I don't get mpp. I even had an idea that got implemented, but because when I was bored and did my "reboot dance" on gossip, I'm not getting that point....I'm developing my character in rp and think he's already more developed than many that do rp, but that doesn't matter, because he's at 1 con with 12mpp.

More and more I'm liking the idea of either no constitution loss or no permanent death while roleplay. I still have kind of mixed feelings about it though so I'd love to hear what others think.

Best regards,

--Nezmar

I LOVE that idea Nezmar. The last quest I was on I died and lost a con, then got it back from completing the quest... so it wasn't really a thank you from staff for playing was it? More like a, "way to go dieing here's what you lost."

If I were quest ready now, I almost... almost... wouldn't want to quest in case we had to fight and I permid during a quest. Klea took that risk, thankfully didn't permi during the quest, bit did a few months later. Vladikus said the same thing, he's one con, ready to quest. I had a player tell me, "Maybe if Vladikus and I (the player) quested together, I can help him along his way to permi." That's not cool, no matter how much you don't like another player, wanting them to permi shouldn't be a thought.

Again, Love the idea of no con loss during rp. I also still like upping when you can start losing con for newbies that die. I'm level 26 or so right now
and have done well enough not to die, because I'm supposedly "learning". But I've seen some die, not sure on their con loss. About 35 you can wear some
better gear. I think 35 might be a good point to start having the chance of lost con. You're getting better gear, your character has learned a few good skills, you're getting better with those skills... yeah, 35 sounds about right.

Okay, I've sat back and (uncharacteristically) held my opinion to myself on this. Please do keep in mind that this is just *my* personal opinion, not a "staffer" or "admin" or anything, just me, the player.

I think of the permi-death issue not as a "game" problem but as further incentive to challenge myself to play better. To improve my own skills as a player, out-think a problem and to simply play the game to the best of my abilities. If I perma-die, well, then I simply sucked at that character. I take it as a sign I need to improve myself, how I choose my stats to start with, my eq, my actions along the way.

And no, I'm in no way saying those who perma-die suck. I just know how much a great player named Jaron taught me to hate dying and I simply avoid it like the plague. I *always* have two ways out of a situation or I refuse to go into the situation. And I do go into almost any situation, as long as the combination of talent I'm with is strong enough.

It's not always about "you" - it's about the "team" and the game. *shrug* I just play it, I don't blame it.

I've got nothing. Wow, this, you're reply as a player, not staff etc... made me think. I complain about anything I see in the game. My ideas and bugs have been constant recently. Sorry for any bother. I am coming around to permi-death. I wouldn't feel so bad about it if for a while, even if I died 3/4 weeks apart... I always lost a con. I think I've lost con 4 out of 5 deaths. Now, that last 3 deaths of Gydin, I got lucky for some crazy reason and didn't lose con for 2 deaths, just lost this last one that put me to 1 con. But the last 4 deaths before that, lost con. There was a streak there for a few months where I lost 4 con in a row, not sure when that was.

There are always ways out when we go into a fight, sometimes risky, but ways out. The last 3 deaths I had there were 3 ways out. Fleeing, recalling, and my chalice. I didn't have time, the game didn't register any of those. All three deaths were from lag of some sorty be it getting bashed and having an entire room of bb mobs assist. Lag from turing and then being rescued, or lag from starting a fight with a spell and getting agro'd and owned.

Anyways, I accept permi-death, nothing I do will make that go away. I again, like no con loss during rp and firmly support that. I'd prolly still be at 2 con if it wasn't for that last quest I lost a con on.

I don't accept the difficulty of getting mpp and con flasks though. That's why I complain. If it's that easy to lose the con, should be less difficult to get it back. Can't gift mpp anymore? Okay, make it easier for a player to get, and I'm not talking just for buying con back. What if I wanted to go evil this late in the game? That might be interesting with this character, but I can't do that can I? Atleast not with mpp. I'd have to rp it, and well... I'm having enough fun trying to mold my rp as it is, to start worring about trying to go evil.

I thank you for posting. It's always good to hear from you.