Maybe DL is just a little out of date. Lets look at some things other mudds have to offer.

-Exp bonus for a period of time.
-A strong newbie area, where they can get decent armor for themselves, learn the fighting system, and read up on some material.
-Character customization of looks, skills, bonus'
-Quests for newbies.
-Level known gear.
-No major enc problems. Takes more to enc someone.
-Diversity of cross class skills. Choose what to learn. Further customizes a character.
-Trade practice sessions into training sessions. You can up stats and even hp, mana, etc. (Great for higher level characters who can't prac much more.)
-Recall set points. Recall to diff places.
-Sacrificing corpses or items to your God and getting gold in return.
-Shops that constantly buy items from you, not a set amount of gold in the shops.
-You can see your hitroll and dam roll on attributes.
-You can see your resistance to all things.
-Player killing within their level ranking.
-Constant rp, don't have a flag, have to stay ic. Use ooc channels to talk ooc.

And a few others, I'll add more as I find more.
Please add things you may have seen on other mudds that you find interesting.

I have something to say about the forced rp. I have ALWAYS enjoyed the way RP is entered into on DL. Every mud on the planet does forced RP or does RP for everyone. I enjoy that ooc DL and RP DL are totally seperate. I also enjoy having to write a description and background for your character before being approved to RP. Having to think through your character makes you care about it. No matter how long you have to wait to be RP approved sometimes, it is worth it. One of the main reasons I stuck with DL is because of this distinction. I helped build another mud that has forced RP, and side note to jorlain had auto con loss on all death and limited levels, I left this mud after devoting much time to it because the system here is so much more appealing. So I am going to vote a huge, resounding, giant NO. On the only rp system, the way it is makes DL great and unique!

I will totally agree with gid on this one...maybe a newbie type zone would help with newer people...and maybe less of a penalty for lower level people dying...i mean someone who is new and dies 10 times with their level 10 character now almost has to make a new one...that will push people away

also, not a big fan of forced RP, as I like to hack n slash...but forced RP draws a certain group in and pushed others out...the optional RP flag keeps the 2 apart...

-Experience bonuses (or penalties, I suppose) would be fairly easy to add, if people really believe it is worthwhile and provide some different scenarios they would like to see these bonuses used in.

-I think we actually have some quite good newbie areas. Sounds like what your describing here is a "mudschool" type area. In my opinion these can actually detract from a game. I'm hoping to use the new macro code to provide some of this functionality (help with learning commands and such).

-Character customization is largely already available so I'm not sure what you are trying to describe here. I admit our character creation system could use a complete overhaul, but it is generally decent and useable. What, specifically, should be changed or added?

-Quests for lower level characters are entirely possible in the system we have in place today. The thing that we are lacking is the staff to create and run them.

-Level known gear? I'm not sure what you are describing.

-If encumbrance isn't ever a problem, what's the point in trying to use it at all?

-Generally, our spell and skill system could use a LOT of work, that said, I'm beginning to think it might be worth putting a little work into what we've already got to really flush out the system.

-Trade practice sessions into training sessions. Talk about making it difficult to balance the game. Some things people do just don't make sense to me.

-Recall set points. Teleporting to specific anchor points has always been something I've intended to implement, I just haven't gotten around to it.

-Sacrificing corpses or items to your God and getting gold in return. Why would a God pay you for a corpse? Maybe a really Evil god, I can see... but in no other circumstance that I can think of does this make any sense.

-Shops that constantly buy items from you, not a set amount of gold in the shops. This makes it extremely difficult to have a stable economy. Essentially, you are constantly pouring gold into the game and decreasing its value.

-You can see your hitroll and dam roll on attributes. This is just a matter of personal preference.

-You can see your resistance to all things. Again, a matter of personal preference. I like for the game to have some mystery to it. If it is all just raw numbers, where is the fun in that?

-Player killing within their level ranking. We already have this, we have player killing within any level ranking (provided you are roleplaying).

-Constant rp, don't have a flag, have to stay ic. I don't know if this would make us gain or lose players, I suspect lose them. DL was started as a hack 'n' slash mud, and despite the fact that we generally want people to roleplay, we ultimately want them to enjoy the game however they see fit. Hack 'n' Slash is here to stay, that is why we made it so (for the most part) roleplayers can't interact with them.

-Constitution/Perm Death. Currently players under level 5 are not affected by perm death, I suppose we could raise this a bit if it is really a problem.

I love passing around ideas. I see a lot of my thoughts you have already considered. Just ideas. Trying to remember some of what you said.

Items that say, doesn't work til 25 when you try to wear. Just a thought, so people don't carry stuff forever.

I think macro's will do well enough for newbies. I do agree that a run newbie area bites if you just need to get some decent gear to start the game with, but are familiar with mudding.

- Speaking of gear, the newbie gear is horrendous. The weapon I can deal with, but a cat doing 20 damage to me when that's all I have to kill... common. Atleast start them with a black leather ninja suit thingy. That's 1 stop all.

Forgot my train of thought, I'll repost.

Well I just made a HUGE reply and had to get up from the desk a while. I came back and finished it and apparently forums logged me out and went to the sign in screen and deleted my reply. Maybe I'll think of it all again and do it later. Maybe not.

There is a line here I believe. I appreciate the level of realism encumbrance can bring. It doesn't make much sense to be able to carry 8 thousand pounds of eq without a penalty. On the other hand encumbrance seems to get pretty high pretty quick. Especially for newbies and low level characters. I don't know if the solution is altering encumbrance (this seems a bit rash to me), creating new and better containers, or just dealing with it as a part of the game and getting on with life. Perhaps a mix of all three? I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand it sucks seeing some one who is (or being one who is) over encumbered never hitting anything and losing moves super fast. However, encumbrance is another challenge to be met. I do think it could be tweaked a bit not be so over encumbered, maybe just for lower levels. I cannot stand the sight of a level 5 character standing around missing a kitten 50 times because his encumbrance is over 90%. So, I'm not sure if I actually said anything of value, but I feel a little better if that counts for anything.

I suggest a deal, use encumbrance it is great and proposes another challenge to be met and (hopefully) overcome. However lighten it up a bit (at least for lower level characters perhaps until level 35?) make it a burden but not a hindrance. Just my 1 cent for the day.

As you rightly point out, there are a number of ways we could address the encumbrance "problem". I'm all for a multi-pronged strategy (adjust building/deal with it) that doesn't involve changing code. Minor tweaks in code across the board I can see (maybe change the encumbrance negative thresholds from 40% to 45% or maybe even 50%?). But to me, it simply doesn't make any sense for a level 34 character to be able to carry more than a level 35 character.

Best regards to all,

--Nezmar

maybe a slight idea
what do low level people carry mostly? their bare essentials (pheasant, bread, waterskin and eq they are wearing)
perhaps making these items weight slightly less could help for low level people
i know when i eat all of my pheasants, my encumbrance goes way down, but i can't do much without getting hungry again and again...so perhaps this would solve low level encumbrance deal...personally i just deal with it and higher level people should just deal with it...but if someone who is new comes in and picks up 4 pheasant breasts and 2 water skins and has low stats, he is doomed before he even gets to level 2.

Enc is based on dex, without higher dex, more enc. With bink boots on and 1 imp dex item, my enc drops below 50%. But without these, it's like 53% or something. I carry a human skin sack which can actually fit all my leveling gear, two held regen and a canteen. The sack itself is heavy, that adds about 17% enc. One thing I see is the light green dinner jacket, which people get for all newbies, weighs 19 lbs and takes up 13 pints. Heavy. Well it's a great item, sets con and charisma, but, no stops on it soooo... give them a coliseum breastplate for the stops. It weighs 7lbs 5 pints. Not too bad. But, people have to carry both since most all the newbie items don't really do any stops under 10, and many don't do any ever, just up stats.

Solution? Lower the weight of the jacket, or give it 1 stop body. That would help. I would say give it one stop body. Also consider this for the jacket, I don't know a dinner jacket that weighs 19 lbs. Please tweek this item. When I drop the jacket, -4% enc. When I drop the bp, that's only -1% enc. Newbies need the jacket.

I realize that some items have become regular for newbies and low level characters. But you know they aren't standard issue. If you have a problem with a particular item, use something else, deal with it, or create somehting else with your builder. I love that DL doesn't have standard eq...some of it has become standard because people know where to get it and know what it does. You yourself know that no one player has seen everything in DL. The jacket has only come to prominence in the last six months or so. SO I repeat deal with it, find something else, or create something new. Much love brother just my opinion on the matter.

I realize that some items have become regular for newbies and low level characters. But you know they aren't standard issue. If you have a problem with a particular item, use something else, deal with it, or create somehting else with your builder.

ok first, not all new players know everything about this game...this is about getting new players, not isolating them...
second, not everyone has a builder to deal with this...so please post something to benefit this thread

Aerin knows me personally (old roommates) and I took no offense to his statement and neither should anyone else. I also have a builder and items are in works to do just that, but the zone isn't in the game is it?

I agree with the above statement. The jacket is a typical item, easy enough to get, has wonderful stats but it's weight and not doing any stops is a problem. Give me a different combination that sets con high enough and gets 1 stop body, then I'll go load that for people. Used to be a warm pink robe, but the jacket sets con higher and does charisma too. Maybe sacrifice the charisma for a little lower weight and 1 stop body.

Hey. I've got an idea. Get peoples minds off everything that's going on in DL or whatever. Run a DLDS! It'll maybe get some people back for the month or so of fun. Get people diving in as deep as they can to find out who loads what, meet people again, say hello. When it's all said and done, run some con arenas, contests or something. I think a DLDS would help out the players and the staff to just take a break from a few things and enjoy. During this time staff gets to relax and just watch people have fun. Maybe do some small coding at a comfortable pace, but mainly hang out and mess with players in DLDS. "Oh, so this group thinks they're gonna take on King Rathe eh? Mwahahah. I think not."

Ummm I was responding to something written by another player, namely Gydin and as he pointed out we used to live together back in college and he understood me. Secondly, all conversation on a topic benefits it in some way. Thirdly, it was fairly obvious that I was addressing one idea brought up by one player, and I did that just fine. Fourthly, no worries I see that I didn't specifically address Gydin by name and I of course meant no offense to anyone, I thought that was on topic but perhaps I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time). Fifthly, yes Gydin yes DLDS!...great idea


Also, just curious how did what I wrote isolate anyone? The builders comment? If so then the other two ideas still apply. I was stating the only otions I saw to the comment Gyd had made about one particular item. I know him and I know he sees this one item as the only option which is why his post was about editing that one single item. So, I was simply saying it isn't the only option to change that one item. Look for new items, deal with it the way it is, build a new one (either with a builder if you have one or in the forum topic set-up on here by Myrrima for people who don't have builders to give ideas.) Ok, now that I have hopefully explained myself I hope it is all good. That's a lot of hope. heh.
Much love to EVERYONE.