This game is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I imagine that one of the most frustrating things aside from permadeath and con loss, is the initial stat roll. I've rolled for hours at a stretch, only to fail at coming up with good numbers (maybe I just have high standards ), but it's somewhat of a turnoff to the game. Those hours I've spent going for what I consider ideal stats, I could've spent elsewhere, like leveling, exploring, even RPing.

So, this frustration is from a quasi-veteran, I can only imagine a newcomer to the game, rolling his stats, only to have a friendly player ask him to re-roll for better ones (It happened to me long ago, but I don't regret it ).

So, I've thought up an easier, (maybe too easy) stat rolling method, which I call Method 4.

Method 4 is basically a twist on Method One to weed out less favorable rolls, by increasing the number of dice rolled from 4 to 12. However, I don't pick the top 3 from 12.

Method 4; 4 Dice are rolled, and the top three rolls are totaled, This process is completed two additional times, and the best total from the three attempts is selected as an attribute. This process is completed once for each of the seven attributes.

I actually went and built Method 4 into a quick VB.NET program, along with Method 1 (Or my understanding of it anyways) for a side-by-side comparison. If anyone (such as Nezmar/Vulsin/Staff) would like to take a look at this program, and it's source, I'll happily email it to you.

Happy Rolling,
Dref

*Topic Nudge*

Did I forget this was part of my plan to get potential new players into the game faster, with less discouragement? Even experienced mudders get tired of rolling stats after an hour or three, and they generally know what they're trying to roll.

Perhaps you could limit/control this method, by allowing new accounts to only use this particular method a maximum of three times, after which they'd no longer have it as an option?


My ultimate goal was to nudge this topic.

The rolling method you've proposed is not balanced with the existing rolling methods, it would create "super" characters. It would add an *average* of 18 points to every single set of stats... I even took the time to write the code to prove it (see Ruby code below). If you run it with "REROLLS" set to 1, you get the following:

$ ./dice
Average roll = 62

Then change REROLLS to 3 as you propose...

$ ./dice
Average roll = 80

If rolling is a great source of frustration, maybe we should just get rid of it all together and make everyone have the same starting stats (that was part of the idea of method 3). Please know I've been reading along and do care about this... I just don't see a lot of room for improvement. Further, my experience suggests that if you raise the average roll... people will roll just as long to get the uber perfect stats instead of the almost uber perfect stats they could get before.

Best regards,

--Nezmar

Ruby code that illustrates dice roll averages:

#!/usr/bin/ruby
ROLLS = 10000
SETS = 7
REROLLS = 1

total_rolls = ROLLS
grand_total = 0
while(total_rolls > 0)
total = 0
sets = SETS
while(sets > 0)
count = REROLLS
num = 0
while(count > 0)
i = rand(6)
j = rand(6)
k = rand(6)
l = rand(6)
if i < j && i < k && i < l
m = j + k + l
elsif j < i && j < k && j < l
m = i + k + l
elsif k < i && k < j && k < l
m = i + j + l
else
m = i + j + k
end
if num == 0
num = m
elsif num < m
num = m
end
count = count - 1
end
total = total + num
sets = sets - 1
end
grand_total = grand_total + total
total_rolls = total_rolls - 1
end

puts "Average roll = #{grand_total / ROLLS}"

Well, there was a reason I put it in the idea box, it was an idea, and I wanted feedback.

Feedback attained.

And I do agree with you here:


Dref

I always wondered when you pick a string of numbers (on any of the rolling methods) why could you not pick which number went to what stat?? I thought that would be better depending on what class you chose, and if you used the methods that are already in the game I don't see how it would make it unbalanced.

I guess I could see making essentially rolling method 1 (or even 2) but with only 1 "row" of stats and you get to assign the numbers to each ability (or reroll). Do you think that is needed or desirable?

Best regards,

--Nezmar

Kudos goldenlionsabre response. It would be good to be able to switch stats that you rolled. You keep the roll. But just move around the numbers. So instead of getting rolls for str, int, etc... You get what, 7 rolls. You are asked to roll again or accept. Once you accept, there is a list of the 7 rolls you just did. All numbered 1-7. Then there's a list of str, int, etc with a blank box. In that box you put the number of the roll 1-7. Voila. Better stats where you need em. You won't be uber, but it'll stop those frustrating almost acceptable rolls of 6 con with 18 charisma and you wanna be a moon elf. (-2 con)

I think this would be a great replacement for rolling method 1 or 3. Does anyone really use rolling method 3? I don't know, I've always been a Method 1 or 2 guy.

I used to use rolling method 3 back in the day when I had my old ranger some 10 years ago. My level 100 (non-avatar back then) bashing mage was made with method 3, actually. This was before stat setting items could only set to a maximum of double your natural ability. You could roll a character with all 3's and get gear to set it all to 25 (I've heard of this being done once.)

Taking something like method 1 and replacing it with the proposed "move the stats around" method would be a pretty good idea, in my opinion. That's how we've rolled stats when I used to play tabletop AD&D 2nd Edition. Roll 4d6, drop the lowest dice. Do that once for every stat, then move your rolls to where you want them to be. No adding and subtracting points or anything. It worked great. We had some fairly balanced characters in my old AD&D group.

With the advent of "dex setters can only set double your natural dex" (and so on), method 3 has really lost all of its appeal, in my opinion.

I'm glad you all seem to like my idea. I'll have to post more for other areas of the game I might post when I get a chance. I also used this method when I played table-top D&D, and it seemed to work out fine. Mostly I think doing this would just take out the frustration of have to reroll until you get a decent number in the certain slots you want. Plus, newbie characters wont be so bad off.

Rolling method IV added.

Best regards,

--Nezmar

Hi!
Guess what, guess who, guess how.
Wait, just don't.
Let's get to it, you've all got considerable varieties of excuses about my roll character methods.
I've always like 2cnd or 3rd method made best, BECAUSE" you can choose either 6o points to assign to base 3's, or 10 to random set strings. This has always made the rolling process a challenge.

You've always wanted to learn what you wanted to roll before entering the editor. It's just the nature of what we do. Entirely you'd always choose the class so you can narrow race. That way you can watch the stats as they roll to make the preffered character..

You want to change this, and make it assignable as to witch one rolls up. This isn't desireable to me nor deserve kuddos.

The way it is set up, makes rolling some particular races an extreme challange to get it done with some exceptional, even just ocassionaly rolling the "uber" guy.
It's possible. It's entirely possible to still roll uber stats.
I know Nezmar narrowed the slim picking down from what they were.
I'm one of the few engrossed with constance of rolls. Why owning 1o characters is a problem. Always need one to make new rolls.

Eventually you get to a point in my shoes, where you have so many little people lined up to be played later on.
Guess what.
I didn't make all them at once. Usually in batches, often more than my 9 were deleted.

I've had plans to take particular races to the tops. To become the man/woman to have done something remarkable.

IF you change the way I've had to bear with things because of a whim. This isn't desirable. I appreciate peoples imputs.

But when it comes to rolling something.
Know what you want, have patience, and adapt to reading all the stats at once with a glance of the eye.
I'm not old and smart because it's natural, this is all learned.
Perhaps you could all learn to act like me for just once.
Put up with it,
Rolling status is balanced.
Thanks for the thought.